Stopping users with Otter.ai from joining meeting

[albert-rivas]

Lately, we have been having a lot of users join our meetings with Otter.ai and record and transcribe the meeting.  Some of those meetings are confidential and wanted to see if there is a security setting that needs to be adjusted or what can be done to stop these users from joining the meeting with otter.ai.   We started enabling waiting rooms and allowing users in one at a time but when you have meetings with 100s of individuals, it's hard to police everyone.  Is anyone else dealing with this?

[RN]

Hey @albert-rivas just to further understand, but users are joining with otter.AI enabled on their account and you are wanting to prevent users from joining or joining with otter.ai? To my understanding, Otter.ai Zoom Sync is a Business plan integration that can automatically sync and transcribe your Zoom cloud recordings, so not sure what you mean by "stopping users from joining the meeting with otter.ai."

Have you looked into Zooms Audio transcription for cloud recordings though? 

[albert-rivas]

We are wanting to stop recordings and transcriptions of our meetings as some of them are confidential.  I was looking to hopefully enable some security settings that zoom might have to stop any user that comes in with something like otter.ai or another transcribing/recording software.

Not all of our meetings are confidential but the ones that are, we want to enable any security settings to keep them confidential and not recorded/transcribed.

[Mish58]

Dear RN - the problem is to STOP people from using AI bots to automatically transcribe the meeting if it is confidential. There should be a security feature allowing meeting host to block Otter.AI and similar robots from joining meetings. 

[VLDServices]

We need to block users not provisioned in our org. Zoom account from using Otter.ai in our meetings. Our org. Zoom account has it blocked, but it's becoming an issue for users not in our environment joining our meetings. We have low-tech users and need a "global" solution to enact in our org. Zoom account to keep it from entering our meetings.

[HContreras]

Since we're talking about Otter.ai.  Another thing it does is automatically create a free account for attendees and it starts transcribing subsequent meetings without them asking for it.  

[Jnlwriter]

You probably know this by now, but Otter.ai is linked to individuals, so, for example, both John Doe and “John Doe’s Otter ai note taker” Will join a meeting as two separate entities. The OP wants to block JD’s otter bot. 

[Mish58]

Yes I have the same problem. It gets worse - people who have the option in Otter set to automatically join all their meetings, end up having Otter attend on their behalf and then broadcasting these live notes to everybody who was invited to the meeting - breaking all kinds of confidentiality.

[albert-rivas]

That is precisely the problem.  I feel that there should be a security setting that should stop automated ai bots from transcribing the meetings we don't want to be transcribed.  I am just asking if there are any settings or anything that we can activate in zoom to stop this from happening.  it doesn't seem like there is a way to do this. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[NSIL79]

I look forward to seeing a response to this. It's such an unbelievable violation of our confidentiality that we cannot prevent it. 

[NSIL79]

YES! We have been having this issue repeatedly. I sent Otter 4 urgent emails and nobody replied to me. Absurd that they are allowed to do that. I emailed zoom with the same concerns, nobody replied. 

[WillieJ]

Otter replied to me.  

"you may view your guest list on the meeting and if someone's name matches that Otterpilot, that person must've created an account with Otter, and you may notify them about the recording."

Not helpful at all. 

[Aila]

We have had a similar issue with Zoom meetings at the university.

Apparently, research students have downloaded the program for transcription. They had no idea this program would remote into any meetings (even if they had not intended to attend it - virtually or otherwise).  As one possible solution, a student deleted the program.

[Mish58]

Hi there - Yes, and it would be good to have a facility in Zoom to address this. I have had some people willing and able to either delete Otter or (simple enough) changes its settings so it doesn't automatically enter all their meetings. 

However I would like to be able to block Otter.ai on a blanket basis from confidential meetings I host.

[Frank_TB]

Please consider the following:

I can screen record anything on my computer screen using a multitude of screen tecording applications. Once I have this recording I can transcribe it using any number of methods.

Zoom may stop Otter AI, but essentially,  a determined user will succeed. I can just point my cell phone camera at my computer monitor and press record and do everything you are concerned about.

Maybe it’s time rethink how you conduct meetings and what should or should not be part of the meeting.

Everything I just said is true for Microsoft Teams meetings, Google Meet, WebEx and all of the other meeting platforms.

Hace you considered using other means such as an NDA?

Regards

[Mish58]

Great point! And what is different about Otter.AI is that it automatically joins the Zoom meeting without video, and WITHOUT its human "owner" even being present in the meeting at all. It also emails the notes to EVERY person who was INVITED to the meeting, whether they were present or not. 

[albert-rivas]

We have found that some users didn't know that otter.ai automatically joins all Zoom meetings without them even having to be present and then sends the transcription to all people invited.   We have asked that people uninstall and have created all our meetings to have a waiting room, especially with those that are more confidential to slowly let people in one at a time to try to monitor those otter.ai users. 

[albert-rivas]

That is true.  You can't stop anyone from recording conversations whether it's via video, audio or other ways.   I do feel that Zoom should have some security options to stop web applications or third-party apps to be able to do this.  It seems this is a new issue but a growing trend and issue with a lot of users.   We might have to start doing NDA's to hold people accountable for these confidential conversations but still feel that zoom should have some capabilities to assist in these security measures. 

[Mish58]

Dear Frank, you make good points - in the event that somebody is determined to break confidentiality and record by some means. I believe what is different about Otter.AI's app is that it makes perfectly well-meaning subscribers to a meeting into unwitting breakers of confidentiality and spreads unnecessary alarm amongst participants. 

My meetings, for example, are not of earth-shattering confidentiality but personal matters are discussed in ways that participants only want to share them live and in the moment. When somebody for some reason doesn't make it to the meeting, and then unknown to that person has a robot go into the meeting in his or her name and broadcast its contents - that is on a whole different level of disruption.

[grossmusic]

Telling people to rethink on the assumption that "confidential" is at a high level isn't really helpful to most users, since people in that position already know the rules for their industries. Anytime the answer to a tech issue is "rethink" in a scolding way irks the h--- out of most normal people.

Most Zoom users are doing proprietary stuff we don't want getting easily distributed to others, & we want control of who gets it. Yes, we know people can do workarounds, but Otter makes it not only too easy, but to what end other than to usurp the host? So we don't want others using Otter in a way that eblasts everyone (attended or not), but if they go through the rigmarole of recording it for themselves, that's their prerogative.
I also never want to hear from random attendees of a meeting I was at & get their notes. It's just WEIRD!

[mcrespi8381]

I am sorry but this is a ridiculous reply. I belong to a group where anonymity is paramount. We have this otter bot joining in multiple days. It is not a technical group but every meeting is confidential. We pay for Zoom. This is not their fault but there needs to be an answer. It is ridiculous for a default setting to be recorded. And is it not illegal in some states to record a conversation without permission from the recorded parties. This otter seems like a good product idea but this is a nightmare. 

[bf1919]

Zoom is in partnership with Otter.AI--in other words they work together and serve each other.  Both Zoom and Otter appear to be these innocent companies providing video conference and transcription software, but they are AI companies, using our transcripts and voices and video faces to feed the AI machines, which in turn make artificial people, artificial voices, and AI-powered information. It's outrageous. Avoid using Zoom, Otter, all these tools.

[Robert-SDP]

No,
This is an unacceptable point of view from a vendor that provides the platform.
Regardless of the other ways a meeting could be compromised, by facilitating the theft of confidential information could be a crime in many regions.
This is a security violation and needs to be remedied quickly.

[mcrespi8381]

Hello Robert,

If you are saying my point of view is acceptable, I need to tell you my point of view does not matter. I am not affiliated with Zoom, Otter, or any of the bots or players in this.  I was merely stating that this is not really Zoom's fault and the idea of blocking or removing every individual bot will not scale.  Unless there is something different about a bot login that is technologically recognizable, then I don't see how the platforms like Zoom or Teams, etc block all of them.  In any event, automated logins by software is completely unacceptable, does break laws, and compromises security. So I agree.

[albert-rivas]

I agree.. i hope that zoom can come up with a solution to block otter.ai and other similar third-party apps.  I think the more we voice this issue, a solution will be hopefully implemented.  I started doing those meetings with waiting rooms and you can see when an otter.ai tries to join the meeting.  It sucks for those huge meetings but so far, that's helped at least to try to mitigate the problem.

[WillieJ]

"block Otter.ai on a blanket basis". 

YES!  Exactly.  I cannot believe Zoom has not addressed this issue.

[albert-rivas]

We are also asking individuals to delete that app from their systems.  I don't think some people realize what the program really does. 🫠

[DJD321]

I'd like to summarize the problems identified in this thread in one place, and ask users to verify the accuracy. If indeed all of the below is true, it is alarming:

1. Otter automatically attends any Zoom meeting on my calendar, and records/trancribes audio?
2. Does it do so even if I do not log in to the Zoom meeting?
3. Does it notify all attendees it is doing so? It sounds like it does not identify which user is doing so -- thus the waiting room workaround, is that correct?
4. Then it emails the transcription to every person who was invited to the meeting.

Am I missing any aspect of the problem?

Possible solutions, whether implemented by Otter, Zoom (would have to be other platforms, too) or both:

a. It does not attend a meeting unless the user logs in.
b. It does not record/transcribe unless the user turns it on during a meeting.
c. The meeting host is notified WITH the user's identity and must authorize the recording.
d. The meeting host can forbid Otter. But would have to be done on every platform -- or be built into Otter.

I sure would like to see this prioritized by Otter. What's the best way to communicate with them? In the meantime, I will NOT be installing this app on my computer. And I'm glad I checked this forum before doing so. Thanks, everyone.

[DJD321]

I just uninstalled Otter from my Chrome browser, and it gave me the opportunity to describe the problems and suggest solutions. Nice. 

[Mish58]

Yes, you are right:

1. Otter automatically attends any Zoom meeting on the user's calendar, and records/trancribes audio
2. It does so even if the user does not log in to the Zoom meeting
3. It does not notify all attendees it is doing so. It shows up as a non-video participant in the meeting and sends no communication to other Zoom participants about what it is doing.
4. Then it emails the transcription to every person who was invited to the meeting.

Am I missing any aspect of the problem? - I think the above summary is pretty comprehensive.

[DJD321]

WOW.

[jacobsonds]

You can add to the list that recording and disseminating information in a healthcare setting can be a direct violation of HIPPA rules. Patient meet ups, etc need to be confidential absolutely should not be recorded in any way. I understand the statement that anyone can record the screen but the ability to restrict recording as much as possible is required in these situations.

[paul0527]

I have Otter.ai.  You have to turn on the OtterPilot to have it automatically join your meetings without you.  Your users are turning on that feature.    You also have the option it notifying the host 24 hours that Otter.ai pilot will be joining the meeting.   The host can kick anyone out that is joined by Otter.ai too.   

[HContreras]

The issue is with Zoom attendees from outside organizations.  Organizational admins cannot control whether external attendees have OtterPilot on or not, and no way to keep it from joining meetings and disseminating meeting notes to all attendees.

[grossmusic]

Can't we just deny entry to an Otter AI as the host of a meeting? Unless you have 100 people entering all at once & need to "admit all," it's totally controllable. If you do have 100 people, it's likely you have an assistant in there looking for "bombers" anyhow, so it can be a non-issue.

What am I missing?

As an Otter user, I'm looking for ways to be efficient without being obnoxious to other hosts.

[WillieJ]

That's good that Otter works for you.  But as a member of an anonymous 12-step group, our meetings are open and we don't always have someone available to host the meeting in order to turn on the waiting room and block the Otter bot from entering the meeting.  As the original poster states, Zoom should give us a security option to not allow Otter bots into our meetings.  That way someone like you does not have to enable, and others like the original poster and myself can enable.

[mcrespi8381]

I have written Otter as I share membership in a group like the ine described. Its difficult to play whack a mole removing these users or begging companies like zoom and microsoft to provide a safeguard. If Otter can through their integration announce themselves and allow the meeting host to say no that may work. Otherwise zoom, ms, webex, etc etc will all have to deal with otter and any other copy cats down the road. This whole thing seems crazy to me as someone who has been in high tech for 25 years. 

[Robert-SDP]

I host large calls and 40%+ have some type of bot. That is a lot to work and it you have limitations on attendees they will consume seats in what should be bodies.

[heveas]

We are also very concerned about todays post in Stackdiary that Zoom will use our proprietary and personal date to train their AI monkey... Hoping to get some clarification from the CEO of Zoom very soon. Also curious if that is allowed in the European Union (likely not foreseen by the GDPR "masterminds"?)

[DJD321]

I found this notification inside my desktop Otter today, which I don't normally use. But the linked blog piece is dated June 2022. 

Also: Where are the meeting recordings kept? I'm not finding any Otter folder in my hard drive Program Files or elsewhere. Are they kept in Otter's cloud without our access? And: Does our concern apply to any Zoom meeting if we have Otter installed in our browser (or hard drive?) I have it only on my phone. I host Zoom sessions all the time and have never had an attendee say they got meeting minutes. Is a "meeting" a subgroup of all Zoom sessions?